The Dork Knight ([info]mulhern) wrote,
@ 2006-10-18 03:51:00
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Current mood: contemplative
Current music:Dropkick Murphys - Amazing Grace

Today's Sermon is on Religion
Pre-rant caveat: I'm pretty drunk.


Tonight, Jon and I got lost in one of my favorite geek past-times: The philosophical debate.

We debated many things, but the topic that kept rearing its head was the existence of God and the beginning of life. A wise man once said that personal wisdom begins with admitting, "I don't know." I'll be the first to admit that I don't KNOW anything. I think many things, and even believe a good amount. I'm one hundred percent positive, however, about very little.

This is my foremost problem with religion. The religious right (and indeed organized religion in general) exists on the precept that the religious somehow GET some fundamental truth that the rest of us cannot grasp. I don't think it would be too much of a stretch to say that that the current ruling power of America is that of Christian Orthodoxy. Today's Christians, however, are Christians in name only.

Take a hard look at the teachings of Christ and you find a man who has more in common with Socrates than with any of today's so-called "religious scholars." Study Jesus and you find a man more apt to ask questions and challenge precepts that someone who torpedoes-be-damned clings to some ancient doctrine of right and wrong. Jesus was a cat who had a groovy philosophy for understanding and accepting your fellow man - a way of living-and-let-live that allows for the evils of human nature and teaches a way of being personally moral and personally responsible. Flash forward two thousand years and I bet this guy would be rolling in his (supposedly) empty grave at the way his teachings have been bastardized by modern man.

I believe (as many do) that religion should be a personal thing - something that you've studied and have come to accept as a spiritual philosophy that helps you- as an individual- get through the day. Instead we find a politicized dogmatic organization whose fundamental ideology says, at its core, "do what we say or burn for all eternity." In this regard I can see how the religious right and conservative republicans make such good bedfellows - both govern through fear-based, "our way or the pitchfork highway" tactics.

The moment you take a personal, philosophical ideology and build a structured, dogmatic infrastructure around it, you BY DEFINITION corrupt it. So now, instead of a personalized, agonized-over, hard-fought individual ideology arrived at through intensive reflective study and meditation (and god-forbid DEBATE), you have an imposing, threatening dogmatic dictatorship that leaves no room for interpretation and commands that you obey every aspect of their ideology lest you burn forever in a pit of eternal torment.

No thanks.

As I said before, I'm the first to admit that I don't KNOW anything. But as someone who was an altar boy for four years, a sacristan for three, a catholic school student for eighteen years and an amateur student of the Bible, Qur'an, Talmud, Kanjur and any other religious, historical scripture I can get my hands on, I've come to terms with two truths:

1. - Virtually all religious texts have at their core the same fundamental tenants of morality and codes of human behavior.

2. - Virtually none of them are accurately reflected by the current tenants of the popular modern forms their respective religions take on.

Religion, as a personal tool, is a useful rubric through which one can come to a personal understanding of their concept of god.

As an organized belief structure, it is a deadly weapon that can be corrupted into excusing, even ENCOURAGING any extremist viewpoint already inherent in a person. It can (and HAS) been used to justify almost every historical tragedy from slavery, witch-hunting, gay-bashing, and every form of repression from sexual to racial to cultural.

What it comes down to is that like anything, Religion is easily perverted by man. And because it claims to be the word of god, it is all that more effective and deadly a perversion.

What's saddening is that this country was supposedly founded on the denunciation of religious persecution and thus was set up as a religion-free zone of sorts. What has happened is that a Judeo-Christian regime (well, mostly Christian) has taken power. One cannot even get ELECTED to public office without being devoutly religious it would seem, which, as a result, has only led to a public that is begging to be lied to by their potential leaders.

Why is science a vice? Why is doubting hell-worthy? Why is Atheist a dirty word?

"We hold these truths to be self-evident... That ALL men are created equal..."

Why then do evangelical Christians- BY DEFINITION- feel they are superior to those they deem "not saved." This assumes that they GET some greater truth that the rest of us are too stupid to see. They can call it concern for our souls, or pity for our godlessness, but what it comes down to is that they feel smugly superior because they think they're going to heaven and I'm going to hell.

I know that you were blind and now you see. I know you were hungry and now you are full of the lord. Well I'm not hungry, and I see just fine, so fuck off.

It's a cliche, but remember that old tenant of Americanism? "I may not agree with what you say, sir, but I will defend with my life your right to say it." What ever happened to that? Why can't I rationally question the nature of the universe and admit that I have doubts about God's existence and that I believe that Jesus was a wise and honorable man with some revolutionary ideas but NOT God's biological son immaculately conceived of a virgin? Why does that make me somehow some horrible person? That's like the argument that homosexuals shouldn't be scoutmasters or teachers. Why is that you think gays are less able to keep their hands to themselves? Why does nonreligious automatically mean immoral and evil?

I know people that honestly think that not only does hell exist, but that I'm going there because I don't accept Jesus as my personal lord and savior. That means that every non-Christian in the history of the world (even those who lived and died long before Jesus was born) is now burning in hell. Well fuck that, good sir, I’d rather rock out with Ghandi, Nietze and Kant than sit around and self-flagellate with you guys. Afterall, the devil's got the best tunes.

Don't misunderstand me. I'm an optimistic pessimist. I hope to hell there is a god. Seriously. I want there to be. Even if it meant I was wrong, I'd rather burn forever in hell than suddenly blink out of existence. Better to burn out than to fade away, a wise man once said. I'm willing to admit to the possibility of a god.

Even though I can understand the theory of evolution... Even though I can follow the notion of the big bang and of coalescing gasses that explode and spread debris which form galaxies and solar systems and planets and chemicals and proteins and single-celled organism and plant life and living creatures and reptiles and mammals and apes and US. Even though I can (sort of) wrap my mind around the concept that the universe is like a giant piston, constantly and repeatedly expanding and retracting, creating and destroying life in an endless and repetitive cycle.... Even though I can grant all that.... I can't- as a mortal human- fathom all of this not having some sort of a beginning.

As humans, everything we are is based on a life cycle. An alpha and an omega. A Beginning and an End. Capital B, Capital E. Everything about the scientific theory of the origin of the universe makes sense except for the self-perpetuating cycle with no beginning. EVERYTHING has a beginning doesn't it?

And look at chaos theory... When you step back and examine existence and the universe as a whole... when you examine mathematically the random ridiculousness of EVERYTHING... patterns start to emerge. From fractal geometry to fibonacci spirals, there seems to be an almost lyrical symmetry to things. There MUST be or logically none of this would WORK. Is it the hand of God? I don't know... But I'm open to the idea.

This is where we differ from the die-hard religious right. I doubt God's existence... but I'm willing to accept the idea. I'm willing to debate it. With them there is no debate. There is no gray, only black and white. Complexity is pushed aside for absolutism. Moral ambiguity is abandoned for zealous certitude.

They KNOW God exists and they KNOW what he/she wants and they UNDERSTAND his/her will. All others be DAMNED! (Literally)

I like to think that I aspire to wisdom. I know nothing for sure.

I think certain things.

I even believe others.




But I'm willing to hear you out.




(10 comments) - (Post a new comment)


[info]cattqn
2006-10-18 02:26 pm UTC (link)
wow. u should teach philosophy at scranton. and then i'll go back and take your class and you'll give me As on all the papers, and not just because of my sweet ass.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]mulhern
2006-10-18 07:01 pm UTC (link)
Well you'll have to give me some sort of incentive to pass you.

But I'd never make it as a philosophy teacher. I'd have to be drunk/high every class, and even then I'd just be waffling on a load of rubbish.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]strovei
2006-10-19 03:21 am UTC (link)
When I read the subject of this post, I thought "oh boy... we're in for a giant debate here" but, surprisingly, I agreed with about 85-90% of what you said.

I agree with you and I think the worst part about religion/spirituality is the organized part of it. It is incredible how many rules and traditions have been completely made up by those who claim to be holding up God's word. In fact, it's laughable that many religious people are so judgmental, especially after Jesus' owns words "let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

Let me just say, though, that this country was not set up as a "religion-free zone." It was founded by citizens who wanted to practice their religion as they see fit without persecution. It was instituted in support of religion, not to be free from it.

I believe that by the time this country completely turns on Christianity, it'll turn a blind eye to the upcoming prophesies and it'll all go downhill from there. Just watch out for those RFID tags, is all I'm saying...

I do think you are mistaken in your depiction of the coolness of Hell. Would it be cool if I was wrong? Of course. I'd be totally down with it. Actually, I'd be OK with nothingness, too. Of course, I wouldn't know about the nothingness, so I wouldn't even have the option of not being cool with it.

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[info]mulhern
2006-10-19 05:14 am UTC (link)
Well my problem is I'm too narcisistic too imagine a universe without me in it. But you're right about the "religion-free zone" comment, I chose my words wrong. When I said country, I should have said government, reinforcing again my position (and yours it seems) that religion should be personal, not institutional.

When you start talking about prophecies however, we jump the track a little, because I find it hard to believe that educated intelligent people can honestly think that history is following some sort of pre-written script and that we're approaching some sort of rapture in which Jesus will come back and the world will end. I know it's Pat Robertson's wet dream, but we are not in the end of days. Not in some biblical left-behind way in ant regard.

Religion as an ideology and moral compass is fine, but when start using it as a roadmap for human development, I start stocking canned goods. There was no Noah's ark, and man did not begin with a Adam and Eve and their sons. The bible is mostly metaphor and parable, and Revelations is a drug induced bruckheimer flick.

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[info]strovei
2006-10-19 02:22 pm UTC (link)
For someone who claims not to know anything for certain, you certainly do seem sure about quite a few things.




And, correct me if I'm wrong, but are you saying Revelations is an acid-tripped version of Beverly Hills Cop? 'Cause I always thought it was the other way around...

AH HEEE HEEE HEEEEE

(do you have any idea how hard it is to type an Eddie Murphy laugh?)

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)


[info]mulhern
2006-10-19 04:18 pm UTC (link)
IT's cool, I totally got it. And your straw man-ing me, Steve. I was expressing an opinion. If you'll read the actual post it says that I can even pretty strongly believe something, but I'll still hear you out. You can't debate without expressing opinion. Do you want me to equivocate before every sentence by saying "I may be wrong, but this is what I'm thinking." No. That's implied.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Point-Counterpoint
[info]jkel25
2006-10-19 06:13 pm UTC (link)
God sent me to write this post so that I will do. All of my actions are based solely on his command. So, instead of negating in words why I think your post is riduclous, I will use the universal language of a numeric point system. God created and assigned the same system for the Olympics, but on a real scale of 1-10. I, however, will do a simple +1, 0, -1 factor scale.

Sidebar: I agree with most of the fundamentals of this post. It's execution and explanation is another thing. There are a number of blanket statements garnishing groups/sects as certain stereotypes (i.e. religious peoples as republican convervatives). You cannot say all religious people are republican conservatives and vice versa. With this, I have a serious problem. To substantiate this, I would not say I am a religious person. I am a man of science. As such, I like to believe that in the statistical world that we live you cannot have odds or negations without both a positive and negative. You cannot have an "off" without and "on." As you can see, the very fundamentals of life are binary. So, you must ask yourself, how can a universe exist with, or as, nothing? With the existence on nothing, you must purport that something at least "can" exist, or even more so... does; this elimates the need for the great/inital mover and paves the way for ideas of the big bang. Good, so we got god out of the way. (Notice I didn't capitalize? And I'm American!)

So, here's the tally:

Blanket statement on religious republicans: -1

Saying that others cannot "Get" religion that the right does: -1

Christians are in "name only": 0 (some sectors of christianity, this would reign truly false, mass public... you're probably right)

Modern depiction of Jesus as a cool cat with bastardized teachings: +1

You corrupt philosophy by building a structured, dogmatic infrastucture around it -1 (think of any branded philospohical movement from Sophism to Cynicism, Hedonism all the way to modern ideologies such as Logiscm, existentialism, modernism... you name it. These were, and still are, ways of life with very structured beliefs, interpretations and incorporated standards in both thinking and action). I would say in no way are any of these "corrupt." And although there isn't a specific Bible for these, there are more writings that you could ever imagine.

You don't KNOW anything: +1

Regarding your two points on the core of religion and their interpretations today: Well, this is a tough one. Just like any interpretation, it's all relative. Some will do it fundamentally, some not. Some will interpret strictly, and others conversely. I agree with your first point and somewhat on the second, but not totally-- maybe in a closed system. But on a large scale, it's impossible to hold this statement true. So: you get 0 points

Forming a complete, relevant and true statement to incorporate the word "rubric", although not necessary: +1

{
The history of religion HAS proved to be a conduit for tragedy: +1

(Counterpoint): ANY belief structure can cause extremism and violence, religious or not: -1
}







(Reply to this) (Thread)

Point-Counterpoint (continued)
[info]jkel25
2006-10-19 06:13 pm UTC (link)
..... countinued

Note on that fact that one cannot even get ELECTED to public office without being devoutly religious it would seem, which, as a result, has only led to a public that is begging to be lied to by their potential leaders: false, -1 (devoutly religious is quite a strong word). There are a number of leaders, politicians, representatives, miliary peoples who are most certainly not devoutly religious. I am working on a full report for you. Did you know Ulysses S. Grant was of no Church and was an advocate of polygomy?).

Science is not a vice and atheist is a dirty word because their people roll in mud.: +1 (the perception of these two, I agree. However, science has and is quickly becoming a secondary set of rules for "God's" world, which he created with just that intention). Still, I give it up for science explaining a whole lot.

Evangelicals are smug, auto-fellating sycohpahnts: +1

The old tenant of americansim: -1 you're making a mountain out of a mole hill. you have every right to be heard, hence the reason I'm responding. you've got the media, blogs, the web, newpapers, freedom of speech, the press. Think of the how the Jews, skeptics and atheists own comedy in hollywood. It's the reason we are all entertained. The only sect you should be afraid of is the FCC (And no, not the Fundamental Christian Clan).

Radom point in your favor: +1 The Pat Robertson's of the world don't count as human beings.

Hell doesn't exist: +1
Nietze had something right: +1
Ghandi is a UFC champ where he is: +1

Your confirmation of a true and hopeful believer; enough to be saved: +1
Your moral understanding: +1

Final score:

6 majorly negative points (i was very strict here)
11 positive points
Two null sets.

Total of 19 points were graded.

With a curved scale you scored a +5 with a error margin of .105


Good tenets, in general. We can talk about your grammatical stucturing another time.

--jkel

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Point-Counterpoint (continued)
[info]mulhern
2006-10-20 03:52 am UTC (link)
Do I get a higher score if I task my cloak of invisibility to my hotbar?

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Point-Counterpoint (continued)
[info]jkel25
2006-10-20 05:00 am UTC (link)
Zing! Well done.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


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